Interviewer: This afternoon, I'm with Shawn Doubiago and we're going to talk about a particular activity that she does that I found really, really interesting. Before we do that, Shawn, could you-- I know almost everybody knows you, but for the few people who don't, could you just tell us a bit about what kind of courses you teach, what department you're housed in, that kind of thing?
Shawn Dubiago: Sure. My name is Shawn Doubiago. I teach comparative literature and culture at USF. The Comparative Literature program is housed in the modern and classical languages department. COMPLIT is as-- We can call it COMPLIT. The COMPLIT major is an interdisciplinary degree that has, as its core requirement, the ability to critically think, write, read and speak in at least two languages.
The courses I teach are primarily serving two functions here at USF. They're core courses-- They're required courses of COMPLIT majors, and they also fulfill the categories C1 literature and the cultural diversity designations at the college core curriculum. Because our program is fairly small at this point, this means that the majority of the students that I come across in my courses are in fact not majors, but rather are taking the course to fulfill their requirements.
I teach basically two main courses in COMPLIT. One is a 200 level course that is entitled Cultures in Conflict. That deals with literary representations of conflict in many, many forms. We began typically with ancient Greek tragedies and we go all the way up to contemporary global literature. It really covers quite a wide array of literatures. The second literature course I teach is basically focused-- It's the first year seminar or transfer seminar, and it's basically focused on childhood trauma and healing.
Interviewer: Well, thank you so much. I wish I was taking those courses now. Sounds really interesting. I'm going to really let you do most of the speaking but I've known Shawn for a few years. It was only recently when Rhonda Magee was leading a workshop on inclusive classrooms and inclusive learning spaces that Shawn talked a little bit about an activity she does. Maybe you do it in all your classes or one of your classes. I don't know which, but it sounded really interesting; a really great approach to using material. I wanted to explore that a little bit. Maybe if you can just take us through initially what the activity is and why you decided it was a good thing to use in your classrooms?
Shawn: I'm going to start with the second part, why I use this activity. For me, one of the first things I discuss in any of the class I'm going to teach is the fundamental importance of narrative in our lives. I always tell students that we humans are-- We function with narratives. Another way to say that is that we cannot function without narrative. It's a seemingly simple statement but in fact, it means that our lives, our national histories, our cultural history, family history, personal history, those are all made up of narratives.
Even our cognitive process is basically put things together and make narratives, in order to make sense of things. Narrative plays a really important role in our development, our understanding of the world, but it can also be limiting and restricting. The activity that I have come to use quite regularly in most of my classes is I use Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie's TED Talk that's entitled The Danger of the Single Story, as a tool to help underscore the potential impact of narrative in our lives.
The way narrative representation can affect our living conditions basically. It's an 18 minute TED talk video, and it articulates some of the dangers that arise from knowing only one single story of a people. Adichie actually uses anecdotes from her own life as examples of the ways we risk critical misunderstandings when we rely on a single story to tell us about a person or a group or a culture, et cetera, et cetera. Basically, what I have students do and this is a three stepped process, is I have them watch the video outside of class.
I approach this particular activity as a flipped classroom activity as well. I have them watch the video outside of class. It's 18 minutes, and it's actually very engaging. I've never had any student who has watched it, complain about it or say anything negative. It's a really wonderful, approachable way to think about narrative. They watch the video, and I also have them do a worksheet at home. Basically, the worksheet is comprised of several questions revolving around--
Basically, what I'm trying to have them do is to think about how we fall into the trap of a single story in our everyday lives. I have them define some of the ways she uses the single story, some examples that she gives, but also I have them think about the ways they've been seen through a single story, as well as ways they may have actually seen other people through a single story. I try to get them to get involved personally as well as listening to the narrative that she's saying.
Then once they've done the worksheet and they've watched this video, the very next class we will spend a good amount of time, dialoguing about what they've understood, and then perhaps most importantly, applying the concept of the single story to the literature that we've been reading in class. It's fairly simple, but I found it incredibly effective in terms of having students recognize, again, both the restrictions that narrative can impose on us and also understanding critically how we can break those restrictions and in fact, have a much more inclusive understanding of how people are similar, as opposed to different.
Interviewer: One of the things that pops up for me when you're talking through this is it sounds, one, wonderfully simple to implement, because I think probably what you may not be saying behind all this as they watch it outside of class, you don't have to worry about that. They do a worksheet outside of class. They've put some thought into it before they come back to the setting. Then in some cases, that's all nice, but this is--
I would imagine at times, this is a discussion that you could have in class that could bring up some real-- Well, who knows? Depends on the class, but could be very emotional or very hurt feelings. I'm wondering what's the name-- For those of you who haven't watched the video, it really is worth watching. You'll get a better sense, by listening or viewing it, what I mean. I am wondering, what's the nature-- I guess, really it's a two part question. I'm really asking this poorly right now.
What's the nature of the conversation that happens in the class, in terms of the openness of the students and also the quality of the points they make? Just wanting to know about that. Then, I have to imagine you tried to do something like this before without using the video, because this is central to your course. What are the differences you notice from what you did before, versus using this activity now, in terms of the quality of the classroom discussion? Does that make sense?
Shawn: Yes. When we begin to talk about what they've watched and what they've written down on their worksheets, it's very common that the first 10, 15 minutes, it's very impersonal. We're talking about perhaps what the video has discussed or linking it to texts that we've read in class. Inevitably, it does become personal. Somebody is willing to break the ice and share a personal experience with us.
That is really a wonderful teaching moment, in my mind. I think once that has happened, the dialogue really shifts in interesting ways. Now, again, my job is to teach them how to read texts, how to analyze texts, but it's also-- I really have a strong sense that we need to help create global citizens and people who are both thinking critically but also engaging with the world in important or in inclusive ways, I guess.
It seems that with this video, students have a fairly easy time making the shift from the impersonal, or the stories out there that they're talking about to their own stories. What that shift also does, it allows them to retain the concepts in a simple but profound way. It is a simple exercise, but it has a lot of really wonderful consequences to it. That's why I found it very effective.
Before I found this video-- I found it fairly early on, so I've been using it for several years now. Of course, this is part of what I do is, to have students think about narrative and think critically about narratives. What I would do is, I would try to unpack in the various narratives that we'd be reading and looking at, unpack possible perspectives on given representations. Some of this, narratives we've read, are playing on stereotypes, meaning performing stereotypes, and others are disrupting stereotypes.
I typically used every narrative we look at as a tool to investigate what is going on. What her video has done for me is that it's simplified the process. They get it really easy, and we can then apply it to all the narratives we use from that point on. It's really something I use early on in the classroom, the first week or two. The nice thing about my literature of the child course or the childhood trauma course is that we actually read one of her novels.
Of course, it's the first novel she wrote. She, in her own writing, plays devil's advocate, and in fact creates these single stories that then she has to burst. It's like the bubble that burst. The characters in her stories are understanding other characters as they pigeonhole them. Then they have to come to terms with what they thought these people were doing when in fact, they were not doing, they were not acting that way at all.Again, that's a nice tool to be able to use her own literature to show how in fact, this works in literature.
Interviewer: Another question that's coming up for me that may be really hard for you to answer is, I'm wondering about-- Essentially, what I'm wondering about is the role of reflection. The way that you've changed this activity, I'm imagining at some point before, this is all done in the live classroom, before Chimamanda's video. Then once you had that video, the fact that they're watching at home, which actually I didn't know until you came in today. I thought you actually played it in class.
The fact they're watching at home-- I know they're doing this worksheet, but what I'm really thinking about is time. That in between when they watch it, even if it's the night before class and they come to class, they have some time to think about it consciously, subconsciously. Your worksheet, in some way, has prompted them about key things to think about, but there's probably other issues that are reverberating in their minds too after watching it. I guess where I'm going with this is, I'm wondering-- It may be hard to tease out as an instructor. I'm wondering if there seems to be any impact of not just the video, but them watching it before they come to class and having some reflective time, before you engage in that discussion?
Shawn: I would say that that time is actually crucial in terms of having them-- When they come to class, they're actually prepared to discuss it in ways that they might not have been, had we watched it in class. It gives them time, like you said, to reflect. Reflection is really critical, I think, in terms of allowing students to develop ideas and to follow through how these ideas work, these concepts work. They seem excited to talk about this. There's no hesitation really. The small hesitation that might be would be, let's talk about the texts and how we can apply these ideas to the text.
Then like I say, invariably, we come around to personal stories as well. We get to both share our own personal experiences and also apply them to these global narratives that are showing us all sorts of interesting stereotypes and breaking of stereotypes, but the reflection is really important. I think it is the fact that they're doing the workouts-- They're getting the content outside and thinking about the content. Again, it's such an engaging TED Talk that I don't think they realize that they're-- Once they start watching it, they become involved with it. It's not as if they're doing homework.
[laughter]
Shawn: I have to say that a lot of my students have actually told me they've posted this on Facebook or they've shared it with their family members. It's something that it really becomes a personal message that they can actually share with others as well. Again, just the nature of Adichie's talk is that it's accessible and really touches on our capacity as humans to do well, or to harm.
Interviewer: Exactly. Part of why I was interested in talking to you more about this is that, it seems this particular talk could be relevant to other instructors besides you. I think your approach could be relevant to many other instructors because if I'm teaching biology or if I'm teaching math, or it doesn't matter what the subject is. There are likely to be-- Not for every class, but there are likely to be some key things out there, TED Talks or something else.
Taking advantage of that material when it's engaging and really useful and really connect it to your course, associate it with some sort of-- Besides watching it, some sort of worksheet or homework or thinking about it outside of the class, and then coming in to have a discussion just seems like a really smart, wonderful approach to maximizing what you're trying to do at the center of a course. It's just really exciting to hear about. I've asked the best questions I know how, but there might be other aspects to this activity or things that you've observed around it that might in some way be important to share with other faculty. If there are, this is your opportunity.
Shawn: I just want to follow up on something you just said about other faculty. I want to say two things. One is, I think that this TED Talk actually would be a tool that any faculty member could use for any discipline. This video, in fact, could lend itself very well to starting the conversation around stereotypes in other disciplines. Rod Fong, he talks about the stereotype threats in his interview with you.
As we know, most disciplines have a stereotype of the student that they're engaging in. Even if you're thinking about science or math or law, politics, any of these, communication, what have you. Any of these disciplines tend to have certain students they cater to which we don't want to think like that. I don't actually think that way, but what is really, I think, useful again about her talk is that it allows for a conversation around what potential students can be like.
They don't have to follow a certain stereotype. They don't have to look a certain way or act a certain way in order to be good at something. I think that's really important in all of our disciplines is to break those rigid structures that have been traditionally placed. Gender, race, et cetera, et cetera in terms of how we do, how we perform it, et cetera, et cetera. That was one thing I did want to say and also yes, I have found that this--
I have other videos that I use in similar ways that are very pertinent to specific topics that I teach. Just to give you an example, there's a really wonderful-- It's a little longer, it's a 30 minute presentation. It's when Lana Wachowski receives the Human Rights Visibility Award. Lana Wachowski-- Most everyone knows who Wachowski was-- One of the Wachowski brothers of the Matrix series, a very famous director but Larry transitioned to become Lana a while ago.
She made the decision to come out publicly in order to sort of discuss how difficult it was for her to be a young person, who was perceived in one way and felt very different from what people perceived her to be. Her narrative in this particular video is-- It's incredibly relevant in terms of thinking about paradigms, and how we all need people, models to follow in. When there are no models to follow, it's really problematic and very difficult.
It's just another way to think about how stories can-- Stories matter. They matter for all sorts of reasons. They matter because they also allow us to become people we think we can be, if we hear and see ourselves in other people. I'd like to read a quote very quickly about what Adichie says at the end of her TED Talk. She says, "Stories matter. Many stories matter. Stories have been used to dispossess and malign, but stories can also be used to empower and to humanize. Stories can break the dignity of a people, but stories can also repair that
broken dignity."
Again, she uses her own personal story about being from Nigeria and having people, when she came to the United States for the first time, consider her as African, and consider her as-- Already pitying her before they've even met her, and how she's also, in turn, done that to other peoples because of the single story that she's had of them, so it's important. I just wanted to recap also on some important points.
The video makes three points about narratives, The Danger of the Single Story, recognizing the relationship between narratives and power, who gets to say, who gets to tell the story, how they're telling the story, when do they begin, and when they end? These are really dependent on power and she, very clearly, articulates that. Then the last thing is the exposure to various narratives, and the use of critical thinking helps us avoid falling into the trap of the single story, so it's very simple, but it's very effective. Right?
I think, as a literature instructor, I profoundly understand the effect of narrative on our lives, on our lived-- In our real lives. We talk about fiction, we read lots of crazy fantasy, fantastical, or impossible stories but in fact, they have a profound effect on our real lives. Recognizing that is, I think, number one, it shows how stories form us, but it also shows that we need to be very critical of how we use them as well.
Interviewer: Shawn, thank you so much for taking the time to discuss this because it's really wonderful to hear about how you're using this in the classroom, the kind of difference it's making. I think your approach to tackling the subject is something we can all learn from, so I really appreciate it. Thank you so much.
Shawn: Thank you for having me.
[00:22:06] [END OF AUDIO]


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