Host: Hello and welcome back to the Global Connections at USF podcast. I'm your host, Rashi Bhaat. And today we have an exciting episode lined up for you. In today's episode, we'll dive into the resources and support available to international students at USF through Career Services. 


We'll be joined by Jessica Lee from Career Services who has invaluable insights on navigating career pathways, finding employment and leveraging resources like Handshake. Jessica will provide an overview of the key services offered, tips for using Handshake effectively and information about various workshops and events designed to benefit international students. 


We also have a special guest, Nathan Wong, an undergraduate business student. Nathan is looking forward to asking Jessica some of those questions you all have in mind to help achieve his professional goals. 


So, hello and welcome both. Let's dive right in. Jessica, do you mind introducing yourself first, telling us a little bit about your department and the work you do? 


Jessica: Absolutely. Hi, everyone. I'm Jessica. I'm a career counselor at USF Career Services. I've been at USF for about two years, but I've been doing career counseling and career coaching for about 10. So I'm excited to be able to share some of my insights. And also I've worked a lot with undergraduate students, graduate students and of course working adults. 


So we have a full range of expertise here at USF. But more importantly at USF Career Services, what you'll find is a lot of staff members, including career planning peers who are just very excited to connect and meet with students. There are so many events from one on one appointments to workshops and of course, Job Fest, which is our career fair/career treks, which is our company field trips and a lot of different things that you can really dive in and get access to regardless if you're an international student or domestic student. We highly recommend students to come early and often into our offices so that you're meeting our staff members already developing those relationships. And so the next time there's a job posting that we see that are open to OPT or CPT, we can think of you at the top of our mind and that's always the best case scenario. 


Host: Wow, sounds exciting. Thank you and welcome. And Nathan, tell us a little bit about yourself, your home country and your program here at USF.


Nathan: Hi, I'm Nathan. I'm from Singapore originally and I am currently a third year finance major with a minor in computer science. 


Host: Oh, excellent. Love that. Welcome both. Let's dive right in. So Jessica, for a student like Nathan who is doing both finance and also computer science. How do you recommend he starts up accessing some of the resources that you mentioned to get involved with Career Services and try to achieve some of his potential career goals. 


Jessica: Yeah, absolutely. So, with any of our business students, we recommend students come in early and often a lot of recruiting happens for the next summer internship actually in the Fall. So right now, if we're recording this over the summer, this is really a perfect time for a lot of international students to get your materials ready. So updating your resume, if you're doing an internship back at home, that's also really great. We want to add that in. And so when you come back into the school year in the Fall, you'll already have your materials to feel confident walking in and access those resources to apply for those internships. So that's more for business students. 


In terms of computer science. Is that correct? Yeah. So that's always going to be ongoing. The timeline is a little bit more flexible if we're thinking about internships. At USF, we do recommend students aim to get 2 to 3 internships before they graduate. 


Internship is more of a loose term in terms of an official one. We all know that it may not be possible but on campus activities, volunteer work, and even projects do count as experience whether or not you're paid. That's another story. 


But what employers are looking for, can you do the job? Do you know these skills and have this experience? So you do wanna make sure your Github is up to date. Any projects you've worked on, be prepared and ready to talk about it, it doesn't need to be completed, but feel confident enough that you're able to talk more about your projects. 


Nathan: With regards to the resume wise, how do I cater my resume so that it kind of meets the company I'm trying to go into. 


Jessica: Yeah, absolutely. So with anyone's resume in the US, we recommend it to be one page. Sometimes the companies you apply for the bigger the company, they might use a thing called application tracking system or you may hear it as ATS. What it really means is when you upload your resume to the organization, they're going to screen it. And without some of the keywords that are gonna be important where you're gonna tailor your resume. So if it's for computer science, making sure you include your coding languages, if it's a little bit more for finance, you might want to have a little bit more of that. 


So in your own personal accounts, I would also recommend having a master resume, which is an internal document you would never share. But we know that sometimes in your experiences, you might have done more than three bullet points, maybe you've done 20 different responsibilities. You're gonna be a little bit more selective and pick and choose which one's gonna be more accessible and it makes sense to be tangible for that job that you're applying to or internship. 


One thing you do want to think about is if you were in the recruiter role, they're looking at over 1000 applications. So they're gonna assume you don't have it. But once they see you use the actual keywords, then they'll be like, OK, the glass is half full. Now I can see and envision you in there the more you be like, well, this is like a sister word, a related word to it. They're not gonna come back, they're gonna move on to the next application and until they have that invisible checklist to know like can you meet the requirements for the role? 


So two documents. One, the internal document that has everything so you can pick and choose kind of like a word match and then one that's going to be tailored specifically for the internship you're applying to. So you'll hear that a lot tailor your resume, tailor your resume and that's what we mean by that. 


Nathan: OK. So let's say I have like my finalized tailored resume just for this company that I'm super interested in. I've done my, I know what they want. You mentioned ATS. 
So how do I, is this something I could use to kind of double check my resume beforehand before submitting it to the company? 


Jessica: Yes. So the one that I like sharing with students is called ResumeWorded and maybe we can put that in the show caption. And that is a great one that I will scan through. One other thing to note about ATS or what makes a resume, not ATS friendly is that if you use an internal table or chart to help with the organization, the ATS will run all the code, but they'll pick up the code to have the visualization of the chart rather than picking up the keywords that you're putting in there. So hopefully that makes sense, auditory in the podcast. Sometimes it can be a little bit tricky to grasp. 


Nathan: That makes sense. Sometimes I would prioritize the words and like the facts I'm putting in rather than the format of how my resume looks like because..


Jessica: The format still matters. But you wouldn't be able to use tables, columns or charts to format it. So it's a lot of space words and tabs and bullet points are probably the most. And then the rich text format would only be bold and italicized in plain text is what we'd recommend. 


Nathan: That makes sense. 
 
Host: Yeah. So something that's visually appealing when the recruiter actually has a look at it, but also something that will go through the software in a manner that can pick up those keywords, right? 


Jessica: It's like that. 
 
Host: Gotcha. That's it. I'm making notes for myself as well. So these are my great tips to keep in mind. Yeah, go on. Did you have any specific questions for the goals that you had? 


Nathan: Yeah, so I've really kind of settled in. I'm like in college, I'm stressing out about my future. So I'm thinking about, ok, what am I going to do? Five years in advance or like 10 years in advance? 


And right now I'm kind of going towards going to like venture capital after I graduate. But the issue right now is that I'm struggling to kind of find internships within America because I'm from Singapore. I'm on a student visa. It's tough for me. So do you have any advice you could offer or like resources I could look at? 


Jessica: Yes, absolutely. So the best resource for students we recommend is Handshake. It's a platform that when that's also a platform, you would make an appointment with a career counselor and also see any of our staff. 


Another function that Handshake has when you log in is that when you start to do the job function, there is a filter where you do have to click more filters and then all in the bottom you wanna select open to OPT and CPT. There, you at least know there's that transparency of whether or not they're being open to international students. What is the other part of the question?


Nathan: Oh it was like how do I kind of go towards that goal? 


Jesscia: OK. Yes. And the other part, thank you for reminding me that is to go on Linkedin and to see who is in your network that is in the VC or ventral capitalist role. 
Since that's the direction you want to head into. And so on Linkedin, you can also schedule an appointment and it would be a job and internship search. If you want to talk more about that, you would then select USF as an organization and then one of the tabs called Alumni or people who've gone to us. So from there, another search function you can do quotes venture capitalist and quote and then you can see anyone who has a profile that says venture capitalists of whether it be in the job title or if they done a little bit of other stuff in their profile description, they'll come up and who have also graduated from us. 


So when we talk about networking, it's about finding that commonality so that it has a soft landing and introduction for yourself. It's hard enough putting yourself out there. But to someone who you know, absolutely nothing about and vice versa can be really challenging and vulnerable. And so we usually recommend trying to find one thing in common. Since you're from Singapore, maybe there's a huge Singaporean network of different VCs. And I think that would be another strategy that you can look into. 


We recommend talking to people in that industry. I would say Career Services is more of a generalist. However, the tips are there that are can be timeless in terms of talking to people, talk to people because your network is probably going to be the strength of how you're going to find a job in the US. And even for domestic students just applying online, that's gonna get you only so far is also the slowest way for you to get a job. But it is about networking, putting yourself out there. 


So it is a huge risk taking, especially if you're more introverted and you feel shy around these things. But sometimes these huge risks can have huge rewards. 


Nathan: Yeah. You mentioned OPT and CPT. What are the differences in like for me as an international student? I know it's like super confusing. Everyone coming in is like, OK, so I need to apply for OPT/CPT. What am I supposed to do here? 
 
Jessica: Rashi, I actually let you take the lead on that one? 


Host: That's actually a great question, Nathan. So as you know, all international students need work authorization to work off campus. CPT and OPT are two ways to obtain work authorization. And the main difference is that students are only eligible for CPT during their studies, whereas OPT can be used during and after their studies. 


So CPT stands for curricular practical training and you are eligible to apply for it if your major has, let's say like an internship component such as an internship course or an internship hour requirement. 


On the other hand, OPT stands for optional practical training. All students are eligible for 12 months of OPT at each higher educational level and they can apply for this authorization during or after their studies to engage in employment related to their field of study. This is not tied to an academic requirement at all. So all students can apply for this. 


And Nathan, if you or anybody else is interested in learning more about CPT or OPT, you could always review our ISSS website for eligibility requirements, application material and the application process. Students can also email or schedule an appointment with their ISSS advisor if they have more questions. And just to plug, we've also done a work authorization and employment pathways podcast episode previously, this goes over the complexities of work authorization and our ISSS advisor Tina Ricafrente, navigates work authorization options for F-1 and J-1 students. And our attorney guest, David Gluckman shares insights on employer sponsorship. So be sure to check that one out as well guys.


Nathan: Mhm OK. Sounds, sounds great. I also have another question for Jessica with regards to like the difference between Handshake and Linkedin because I know a lot of people they understand that Linkedin is like the go to like, OK, I'm trying to put my resume. I'm trying to put myself out for the business world. So what is the difference between Linkedin and Handshake? 


Jessica: Absolutely. So think about Handshake originally, it started by college students for college students. They're like way past college age so now there are employees and founders. So I think that's one thing you can keep that in mind and then college recruiting or employers come to Handshake because they want to look for new graduates, new grads. So students who are just graduating or looking for internships in training and who know that they may not have as much experience. So there's that leverage that Handshake has knowing that it's geared for you, all the entry level jobs will be shown there. 


Versus on LinkedIn, when you look at the job board, it ranges from entry level to director to CEO it goes on and on. And so some of those filters can get really lost in there. So I think that's the pros and cons if you were thinking about what's gonna be best for you, depending on your job or internship search strategy. 


And the pros of Linkedin is that you can add a lot of people and think about it. A ripple effect is how I'd like to share with folks is that if we are connected and then you just graduate from us f and I'm like, congrats and everyone in my network on Linkedin will say like, whoa who's this Nathan that Jessica just commented on. So everyone in my 500 plus network, for example, will see your profile and then everyone in your network, maybe you also have 500 plus, we see who is this Jessica that commented. And so it's this huge ripple effect that will give more visibility to your profile. 


So with that being said, you do want to still have a completed Linkedin profile, proper keywords like we talked about in your resume, but also know that there's a lot more visibility that people can see and also give you leverage like, oh, maybe someone in my network is actually looking for an entry level VC person. And then you've mentioned that in your, at the end of your post, graduate from USF and looking for VC opportunities. I'm like, perfect. We have an opening, let me connect you with someone. 


So hopefully it's a little bit more of an organic virtual networking and exposure for yourself. So it does have a job description. It also has a lot of people that you can see their career trajectory and profile to see how they made their way into certain careers. 
So maybe you're like, OK, well, maybe I didn't study finance. But when I get to VC like, is, has anyone done that before? Like, that's a really great question. I was like, I don't know that off the top of my head. But let's look at Linkedin and then you can find different profiles and maybe there was someone who was a performing arts major that really transitioned to the VC world. And you're like, that's an interesting way how they got there. Let me send a message to see if they're willing to talk about how did you make that pivot from the arts to VC if that was a scenario? So it shows a lot of great real life examples of how you can create your path a little bit more. 


Nathan: Thank you. We also speak about visibility wise for like Linkedin, especially I know Linkedin is kind of a new app where college students are starting to realize like, oh OK, this is kind of like the social media for me entering college for like trying to find a job or internships wise. 


So how do you, how do they kind of build that credibility or like the visibility, like what would you recommend them to do in order to gain like those connections or that group of people that are like have similar jobs or they are interested in? 
Jessica: Yeah. So the first part and the easiest way to grow your network is add your friends, add your families, add people at ISSS and Career Services. I would say also be intentional. Don't just add anyone in there too. 


And as you are going to your first job or maybe you had a really good interview with a recruiter, but it didn't work out. You can always say, is it, would it be OK for us to stay connected on Linkedin and recruiters are always looking for talent. So if not for this role, maybe for a role in two years and then they would already be able to search in their profile. And then when you are getting your first job, adding everyone on there, it may not be exactly in the job that you're looking for, but the more you're able to add, the better it is in that way too. 


And then you've also touched on a really great point. Linkedin can also be a social media. So I think the hardest part about Linkedin is also setting your boundaries. So like social media, like Instagram, Tiktok, Facebook, I'm out dating myself, set those boundaries for yourself. If you know you're there eight hours a day and you're not doing your homework, you're not eating or showering, set those boundaries because Linkedin can really get you into that spiral as well. 


In addition, you will also see when you start adding people, they always share their highlights. I got a new job, I got a promotion and if you're not making traction or you may not feel like you're making traction in your career, it can feel really, really hard. And so that's why I always say limit your social media intake, including Linkedin. You can post on Linkedin to gain that visibility. You can join groups but it's related to your topics. Do you need to post in order to get a job? Absolutely not, people can find jobs anytime without posting. There are some people who naturally love writing, love sharing advice and those stories and that works well for them and they gain that visibility, but I would say don't force a peg into a square if that's not for you. 


Host: I feel like you've given us a lot of really great information on like navigating the job search part of it and like just widening your net, like making sure that you are building your network and building those relationships both using Linkedin as well as like Handshake and the filters that, that allows. Are there any kind of like mock interview or specific interview skills that international students should keep in mind when they are speaking with American employers here?


Jessica: Yeah. First off, we always have mock interview appointments. So most of our appointments are 30 minutes on and the exceptions are a mock interview. So you get an hour to connect with us to talk about it as well as a career major exploration. So if you're thinking I might want to change careers or majors, that's also up to an hour. 
So when you're thinking about interviewing in the US, and the thing I want you to remember is in the US. This is a time to brag about yourself. So with the US is known the most about our ego, lack of better words and our confidence and so totally fine to say that I know I identify as Chinese American and also culturally, there's a humble brag and you know, that's not gonna fare so well. And when you are interviewing in the US, it's all about who can do it the best and who has the confidence to do it. If you're unsure, if you have enough confidence, feel free to make an appointment with us, we'd be like, you don't come across really arrogant. So that's fine, like kick it up a notch. And if you have a really, really healthy dose of confidence, we're like, OK, maybe tone it down a little to adjust it. We'll give you that feedback, not that we ever want to minimize your light or anything. But part of the thing in the system is how do you best navigate through that as well? 


And then speaking, thinking about mock interview, it's also really interesting. I think it's also a mental mindset. Like, do, am I good enough? Am I worthy enough? So sometimes I do see a lot of students over-explain, but sometimes confidence is like not needing to over-explain, but also sharing just enough and just ending it with that point, that's how you showcase their confidence and navigating through that. 


And then I think also what's a really great thing you can always ask, it's like in my country, this is how we interview that feels weird or that feels different. And we, you be like, oh actually that's not a really, that's not a practice here in the US. We don't do that. Like I know also when you're applying for jobs in Europe, they expect you to list your height, your weight and your photo. That's not something that's actually illegal to do in the US too. So always come in and fact check with us and we'd be more than happy to navigate you through the American and Us culture versus your home country culture. Yeah. 
Host: Yeah. That's a great point that you bring up also just to keep in mind like some of these employment scams that people have and ask you to pay in order to get your application through and such. And, you know, international students aren't familiar with the process of even turning in your application or your resume and might get susceptible to falling for some of these scams. So it's good to keep in mind and always just like, run it by a Career Services personnel and make an appointment, like, speak with the experts, they know best, right? 


I think another question that I had in mind in line with what you were speaking about is once you've gotten past the interview part and now you're working in this like American workplace office. Are there any like myths that international students that you speak with often bring up our common misconceptions about working in the US? 


Jessica: Yeah. I think a few things that pop up in my mind is I have to know everything and if I ask questions, I may not be as valuable. And so there's a lot of solo work and silo work on that. And I think yes, you're, I think it's, it's, yes, it's true to a certain extent. And also there is a value of communication and humbleness. I think when you are going to interview, you will hear about what is your weakness because they want to know where is your growth area? Are you able to get feedback and improve and ask for help? That's a really big thing. It's just having a good balance of knowing and confidence, but also acknowledging having that responsibility. 


And so if you feel like I need to prove myself and do everything myself in like youtube or however you're going to acquire your skills, you're actually missing out a lot. And that's a little bit frowned upon where people may perceive you as not a great team member or collaborative. So I think knowing to ask for help or sharing like this is what I've gone through and I think it properly or even if it's just fact checking, if you think that's gonna be helpful, if it does feel unnatural. 


And even then you can say, culturally, you know, in my culture, we don't do this like we're expected to do it in this way. And hopefully you have a really great supportive manager who can understand that and be like, OK, well, I hope you feel comfortable and are able to trust us to ask this question. I don't view it as a negative thing. I actually view it as a very great valuable skill that you're asking the question for. 


Another thing when it comes to myths is that I will write in my cover letter, I will work X amount of hours, do whatever I can take to show that I am the best person in the world. That's actually not great because then you get into the very fine line of them abusing how many hours you're working or overworking you and you're being underpaid and then we want fair labor wages,, and laws and for that, in particular reasons. 


So I think don't feel like you have to overwork yourself in order to prove that you can get that sponsorship role. I know it's a very tricky thing because it is easier said than done. It's always like an internal struggle with that. But there are folks that I definitely, I've seen not here, but I know in my personal life talking to other folks who are trying to get their green card and also getting their H-1B visa here. Like I've worked so many hours. I go above and beyond now. That's the expectation from the company for them. And I'm like, you're overworking yourself. We don't see you during our holidays. Like, why is that? Why do you have limited? And so it just really, it's challenging when you're working with that. 


So sometimes I know that like when you're different home countries, the strife for excellence, it's you're giving your 110%. But in the US, it is already pro like you may feel like you're giving your 60% that you normally do, but in the US, it's probably already 100%. So I think just knowing that balance and know that work life balance, especially in the newer generation is going to be a bigger push than I think previously before. 


Nathan: Right. Yeah, I mean that was very interesting because I understand that a lot of the international seniors, I know they are struggling or they are very confused by a new environment, especially if they are working in America compared to their home country. So, yeah, I mean, it really helps to kind of understand that. Ok. Yes, I'm trying to sell myself for the sponsorship, but I'm also not trying to like, torture myself if I'm giving them too much leverage to kind of use against me as well. I think it's about just finding like that right balance to kind of navigate through that. 


Jessica: Yeah, absolutely. And hopefully you do get out at like a reasonable time so you can go hang out with your friends. What's the point of working? Like you can't even go out and have dinner with your friends. 


So I think finding that balance and also it's, I would say it's easier to set those boundaries early rather than later. So if you've already set up this habit of them asking you to stay till like 9pm or like Monday through Friday, and you're like six months in the job, like it's so hard to be like, actually, I can't do this anymore. Can we go back to ending work at five? That's gonna be a rougher transition to go back versus if they had originally asked you like, ok, I can do this month if it's an urgent project, anything else I do clock out at five o'clock or whatever time. It is just so you are being clear and then there no one is being taken advantage of and there is no shock in there. 


Host: Yeah, you are communicating your boundaries like beforehand and making sure you are not being taken advantage of. Definitely. Well, thank you so much. I am guessing you have mentioned a lot of really good resources. So the best place for students to access that would be going to the Career Services web page. Follow the social media Instagram. I'm guessing I will be sure to link in the podcast information box below. But if you want to plug any events or workshops that students can access during the Fall semester. 


Jessica: Absolutely. So a lot of our events are posted on Handshake and so if you have not checked out Handshake, I think that would be the number one thing to do. You log in with your USF email address, but you drop the “dons” part. So it's “@usfca.edu” and this should be your same password as you log in. You will be able to make appointments. We also have a lot of career tracks, job fest. As a recruiter, those events are usually posted up on Handshake as well as specific workshops that do change topics from each semester. So we do have one on Linkedin and resume and then, but the next semester it could be different. We're always trying to cater to the student needs. So if you have any feedback or any questions and topics, you'd love for us to cover. We are definitely open to that. 


I would say at each event we do have exit survey, but I always ask what is the top company you're interested in? And so we do keep a list of the top companies students are interested in. We can't guarantee that they'll be here in the next semester. Our employer relations team works hard to start nurturing those relationships to hopefully get them into our doors. So the more vocal you can be as a first year student, maybe you will see them by your senior year and that'd be awesome with that too. So best way to do that. And also our Instagram is @usfcareer. 


Host: Sounds good. And Nathan, did you have any final question for Jessica? 
 
Nathan: Not really, I think she did a great job answering all the questions. 


Host: I'm sure you'll be making an appointment with ISSS and hopefully see you at some of the events that Jessica mentioned as well. 


Thank you both. I had a very good time listening to all of these resources that I'm also taking in as a grad student and hopefully we will be able to access, but thank you for the time. 


Nathan: Thank you for having me.


Host: Yeah, of course. 


Jessica: Love being here and excited to connect with the students and then feel free to ask those questions and go from there. 


Host: And that wraps up another episode of Global Connections at USF. A big thank you to our guests, Jessica Lee and Nathan Wong for sharing their incredible insights and experiences. Remember to utilize the valuable resources mentioned today such as Handshake, the US Career Services website, the ISSS resources through our employment web pages and our previous work authorization and employment pathways podcast. 


And also look out for the H-1B Green Card workshop on November 6th and job success workshop on November 21st. You can RSVP for both by visiting the ISSS scheduling link mentioned in the description.